Regarding #10, I submit this from Roger Mavity (Stealing Fire): "Essential to creativity is a ferocious dissatisfaction with the status quo." I think what you're describing as a goal is an objective without a desired outcome, which generates psychological tension as opposed to creative tension and, right, who needs that? Creative tension, on the other hand, is an amazing force, but you can't get it without creating a gap between where you are and where you want to be. The objective is the means to the end (the desired outcome). I share your words with others often, so I offer these comments in the spirit of an exchange.
Thank you for sharing Steve Albini's magnificent quote about success and goals. As someone who has always had goals, I'm wondering if I might benefit from Steve's approach to living.
I'm beginning a new musical chapter this fall. I'm pursuing a master's in music with a focus on composition and jazz/contemporary music. And I bet instead of focusing on goals, focusing on process and progress will yield more for me. And be more fun!
I loved that Steve Albini, who lived in Chicago where I live didn’t have goals! Ive always been taught by everyone that I must be productive and have goals. And yes, when i haven’t achieved them, Ive felt anxious and dissatisfied. However, my Yoda about “process” and enjoying life is my daughter. I was on vacation/work and not feeling like I’d done or seen enough. She reminded me that I didn’t have to do anything and that I’d seen things she hadn’t in the European city she lives in. After that, I relaxed more. Didn’t feel bad about not eating at the Michelin starred restaurant at the resort I was at or seeing castles. Just sat on the balcony of my room and looked at the trees, and mountain feeling peaceful.
As a former corporate girlie, I love Steve Albini's definition of success. Since I quit my corporate job (and my "dream job" at a startup that followed), I decided to give myself a break from "career goals" and just do things that felt good for my heart and my mind.
I joined a small company where I work with a bunch of Type B people who like what they do but don't care to be famous for it. As a result, I have become "post-achievement" myself. I do my job, I like my work. At the end of the day, I have so much brain space to read all the books, to write my substack about my reading life... I even completed the first draft of a novel I started 10 years ago.
As a recovering ambitious, career-driven person... I highly recommend dropping your goals and focusing on process instead.
In Katherine Schafler’s PERFECTIONISTS GUIDE TO LETTING GO she urges the reader to be clear on the difference between goals and intentions. Here’s how she put it in another interview:
“ A goal is a clear demarcation of quantifiable achievement; an intention is more sophisticated.
Intentions are not expressed through what you do but how you do it, not if you do it but why you do it.
Your intention is the energy and purpose behind your striving. Your goal is what you’re striving for.”
I have a project right now where the goal is very clear, but I’m putting almost all my energy into making sure I’m focusing on the intention behind it — why I’m doing it, with what energy. It’s helping a lot
Love this quote, thanks for sharing it. I just said yes to something that scares me (which is partly how I knew it was the right next move). I’ve been considering how I can think of it as an experiment rather than only define success as creating a great end product. Love how this quote (and the quote from #10) helps further shape that idea.
This is perfect and exactly describes my experience. Nerdy question: how were you able to pull that quote for me so fast? Did you remember it? Did you have it typed out somewhere?
😂😂😂 i am so impressed with everything you share that i expected a SYSTEM 😂😂😂 i guess we don't need a process for everything. thank you for answering my question. 🙏
I love Mitch Goldstein and his ideas about teaching and design. He’s a good, funny follow on Instagram if you’re into silly memes about the design process and his book, How To Be A Design Student (And How To Teach Them) is excellent:
The loss of Steve Albini hit hard at our house, and amongst so many people we know. My husband never had him engineer a record, but knew him and many of the people he did work with over the years. I had the pleasure of seeing Shellac play twice in Seattle before the pandemic. I was thinking that even people who don't know his name have been touched by his work, his contribution to music was so far-reaching. I was watching clips people had posted, and my favorite was his apology for having a fascist haircut. https://youtu.be/1uUNeejxWp0?si=oiRt1vm8XExNpU8H
We would all do well to be like Steve. Rest in peace, good man.
I agree with Neitsche. A flash of jealousy when a friend was showing pictures of his art -- which my son noticed -- got me into making art. I found a vein of artmaking inside myself that I had abandoned years before and returned to it. That was six years and manny paintings ago.
As someone who wasn’t encouraged or didn’t feel safe enough to feel his feelings when I was growing up, learning that feelings are information, not something to be avoided or suppressed, was a big thing for me
I really enjoyed going back to reread your letter on “vision.” It delivers a great perspective on work, and goals, and life, for so many different reasons! Thank for sharing…and the “weigh-out” is awesome! 😂
I love the weigh outs! So fun! I liked that you showed your work... math. Had to say it.
So, recently they took down the two, ginormous Frank Stella paintings, here at the Nelson Atkins Museum of Art in KC. They were some of my favorites. Pretty sure I let out a loud, annoyed groan when I saw they were replaced. They swallowed the space and made it look larger all at the same time. What I loved about them (one was grey scale and one was the colors of spectrum in consecutively smaller squares and color scales) that from a distance they looked like they were done with such precision- looked perfect, but up close you could see where he painted over pencil lines and where the paint was a bit dry and scratchy. Absolutely mesmerizing. They were the kind of paintings that had you running forward and backward to look and look again.
I completely laughed out loud at #2. What a character. I really enjoyed the video you posted of him drawing. The host made a great point that his work looks so messy and chaotic, but it's actually done with great purpose. Really inspiring. Good reminder to stay loose, but to also take your time.
That close up / zoom out effect is so important to me with art and it’s absolutely what is lost when you only look at it in a book or see it on screen. A great case for seeing things in person
Well, Elisa s thing lost me at Fahrenheit 451. Great book. Great writer Ray Bradbury. She’s an idiot
This has been my favourite. Some really touching words in here Austin. Thanks, as always.
Regarding #10, I submit this from Roger Mavity (Stealing Fire): "Essential to creativity is a ferocious dissatisfaction with the status quo." I think what you're describing as a goal is an objective without a desired outcome, which generates psychological tension as opposed to creative tension and, right, who needs that? Creative tension, on the other hand, is an amazing force, but you can't get it without creating a gap between where you are and where you want to be. The objective is the means to the end (the desired outcome). I share your words with others often, so I offer these comments in the spirit of an exchange.
Thank you for sharing Steve Albini's magnificent quote about success and goals. As someone who has always had goals, I'm wondering if I might benefit from Steve's approach to living.
I'm beginning a new musical chapter this fall. I'm pursuing a master's in music with a focus on composition and jazz/contemporary music. And I bet instead of focusing on goals, focusing on process and progress will yield more for me. And be more fun!
Thank you, Austin.
Cheers,
Amy
I loved that Steve Albini, who lived in Chicago where I live didn’t have goals! Ive always been taught by everyone that I must be productive and have goals. And yes, when i haven’t achieved them, Ive felt anxious and dissatisfied. However, my Yoda about “process” and enjoying life is my daughter. I was on vacation/work and not feeling like I’d done or seen enough. She reminded me that I didn’t have to do anything and that I’d seen things she hadn’t in the European city she lives in. After that, I relaxed more. Didn’t feel bad about not eating at the Michelin starred restaurant at the resort I was at or seeing castles. Just sat on the balcony of my room and looked at the trees, and mountain feeling peaceful.
GOALs are totally overrated.
As a former corporate girlie, I love Steve Albini's definition of success. Since I quit my corporate job (and my "dream job" at a startup that followed), I decided to give myself a break from "career goals" and just do things that felt good for my heart and my mind.
I joined a small company where I work with a bunch of Type B people who like what they do but don't care to be famous for it. As a result, I have become "post-achievement" myself. I do my job, I like my work. At the end of the day, I have so much brain space to read all the books, to write my substack about my reading life... I even completed the first draft of a novel I started 10 years ago.
As a recovering ambitious, career-driven person... I highly recommend dropping your goals and focusing on process instead.
In Katherine Schafler’s PERFECTIONISTS GUIDE TO LETTING GO she urges the reader to be clear on the difference between goals and intentions. Here’s how she put it in another interview:
“ A goal is a clear demarcation of quantifiable achievement; an intention is more sophisticated.
Intentions are not expressed through what you do but how you do it, not if you do it but why you do it.
Your intention is the energy and purpose behind your striving. Your goal is what you’re striving for.”
I have a project right now where the goal is very clear, but I’m putting almost all my energy into making sure I’m focusing on the intention behind it — why I’m doing it, with what energy. It’s helping a lot
Love this quote, thanks for sharing it. I just said yes to something that scares me (which is partly how I knew it was the right next move). I’ve been considering how I can think of it as an experiment rather than only define success as creating a great end product. Love how this quote (and the quote from #10) helps further shape that idea.
This is perfect and exactly describes my experience. Nerdy question: how were you able to pull that quote for me so fast? Did you remember it? Did you have it typed out somewhere?
Oh I just googled her name and goals and intentions and quoted from the first thing that came up LOL https://hollywhitaker.substack.com/p/48-rethinking-perfectionism
😂😂😂 i am so impressed with everything you share that i expected a SYSTEM 😂😂😂 i guess we don't need a process for everything. thank you for answering my question. 🙏
Hey Austin,
In response to your previous posts about artists overcoming obstacles, I am sending you this link I just learned about that I thought you might enjoy
obstructions / a small website about making
https://mitchgoldstein.com/obstructions/index.html
I love Mitch Goldstein and his ideas about teaching and design. He’s a good, funny follow on Instagram if you’re into silly memes about the design process and his book, How To Be A Design Student (And How To Teach Them) is excellent:
https://bookshop.org/a/18352/9781797222295
Thanks — good reminder to watch THE FIVE OBSTRUCTIONS! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Obstructions
I feel like "you don't need a vision" meshes well with "arbitrary stupid goal" --
https://austinkleon.com/2018/01/19/something-to-look-forward-to/
-- a real resistance to, or simple ignoring of, the limits of being pinned down or boxed in.
That’s a good connection, thank you
Albini's drum sound is iconic and will be missed. I only saw Shellac live once but it left my ears ringing for three days straight. RIP.
I blasted “Bone Machine” in the studio today while doing my pushups
The loss of Steve Albini hit hard at our house, and amongst so many people we know. My husband never had him engineer a record, but knew him and many of the people he did work with over the years. I had the pleasure of seeing Shellac play twice in Seattle before the pandemic. I was thinking that even people who don't know his name have been touched by his work, his contribution to music was so far-reaching. I was watching clips people had posted, and my favorite was his apology for having a fascist haircut. https://youtu.be/1uUNeejxWp0?si=oiRt1vm8XExNpU8H
We would all do well to be like Steve. Rest in peace, good man.
Hahaha i saw that floating around this week. Having a sense of humor about yourself can make up for so much
I agree with Neitsche. A flash of jealousy when a friend was showing pictures of his art -- which my son noticed -- got me into making art. I found a vein of artmaking inside myself that I had abandoned years before and returned to it. That was six years and manny paintings ago.
As someone who wasn’t encouraged or didn’t feel safe enough to feel his feelings when I was growing up, learning that feelings are information, not something to be avoided or suppressed, was a big thing for me
I don't understand why, but I seem to not possesses the JEALOUSY gene.
I have a collage for you: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVBSzKrLShW/
LOL :)
Thank you. That means a lot!
❤️
I really enjoyed going back to reread your letter on “vision.” It delivers a great perspective on work, and goals, and life, for so many different reasons! Thank for sharing…and the “weigh-out” is awesome! 😂
Thanks for saying so — it’s going to have a prominent spot in the next book
I love the weigh outs! So fun! I liked that you showed your work... math. Had to say it.
So, recently they took down the two, ginormous Frank Stella paintings, here at the Nelson Atkins Museum of Art in KC. They were some of my favorites. Pretty sure I let out a loud, annoyed groan when I saw they were replaced. They swallowed the space and made it look larger all at the same time. What I loved about them (one was grey scale and one was the colors of spectrum in consecutively smaller squares and color scales) that from a distance they looked like they were done with such precision- looked perfect, but up close you could see where he painted over pencil lines and where the paint was a bit dry and scratchy. Absolutely mesmerizing. They were the kind of paintings that had you running forward and backward to look and look again.
I completely laughed out loud at #2. What a character. I really enjoyed the video you posted of him drawing. The host made a great point that his work looks so messy and chaotic, but it's actually done with great purpose. Really inspiring. Good reminder to stay loose, but to also take your time.
That close up / zoom out effect is so important to me with art and it’s absolutely what is lost when you only look at it in a book or see it on screen. A great case for seeing things in person
Hope you enjoy Ninth Street Women. I learned so much from it and have a new appreciation for that generation of artists.
The book has been on my radar for a while and this conversation made me order it. Thanks!!!
I loved this book. And every trip to a museum has been with new eyes. And it is beautifully written and edited.
agreed! I wish all art history books were so engaging well-written.
It’s great so far!